Home  |  Message Board  |  Contact Us  |  About Us  |  Fan Pics  |  Fan Polls  |  RSS Feed  |  Top of Thread  |  Login  |  Register
Display By:
Home  |  Message Board  |  Top of Thread  |  Login  |  Register
Display By:

 

Previous Thread   |  Top Of Board  |  Start New Thread  |   Next Thread
MARK_GT Posted on 19/04/2020 16:30
Edited On: 21/04/2020 12:29Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
 
Just heard her on the daily government propaganda broadcast. In answer to an entirely valid question addressing the failings on PPE she says we should be having a more "grown up conversation" about it. They could have stocked for a pandemic and they could have used our industry and science base to support production [B)]
IP: Logged
TANGERINET0WERP0WER Posted on 19/04/2020 16:47

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
she is hopeless...but so is matt hancoock
IP: Logged
BadaBing Posted on 19/04/2020 18:16

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Cannot understand why the British textile / pharmaceutical companies are not manufacturing to meet immediate demand.

FFS, its not rocket science, just PPE garments.
IP: Logged
godhelpus Posted on 19/04/2020 18:50

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
I am sick of them saying stay home. Its yank talk. It's stay AT home XXXXXX dimwits.
IP: Logged
20togo Posted on 19/04/2020 19:08

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
bada

I think it's because the pharmaceutical companies want to control the output. Ie they've got the product and want to rip everybody off.
Nothing is ever straightforward as it should be.
IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 19/04/2020 19:26

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
I think you're most likely right 20s. Pharma companies will still be competing and wanting to control supply. The PPE thing is ludicrous though. Making gowns, aprons and masks could be laid off to a myriad of companies with the wherewithal to do it.
IP: Logged
Blackhorse189 Posted on 19/04/2020 19:32

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
The whole lot from Boris downwards are hopeless, clueless and useless and liar's.
IP: Logged
Kseasider Posted on 19/04/2020 19:35

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Ford motor in Detroit re-tooled and 4 days later have started mass producing respirators [^]
IP: Logged
BadaBing Posted on 19/04/2020 19:42
Edited On: 19/04/2020 19:43
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
The Government should have the power to enforce these Companies to 'do the right thing'

The positive marketing any company could benefit from this, would be worth millions.
IP: Logged
Dark_Side_of_the_Lune Posted on 19/04/2020 20:40

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
The British Health Trade Association is the body who represents the industry. They first approached the NHS two months ago. They got no reply until April 1st.

Now try telling some that a centralised government body isnít always the best way to look after the health of the nation and youíll get called all sorts by the usual suspects.
IP: Logged
THEMISSINGLINK Posted on 19/04/2020 22:29

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
But itís much easier just to blame it on whoever is power at the time DSOTL
IP: Logged
Seaside_Terryer Posted on 19/04/2020 23:50

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
TML,

Can you tell me any strategic statement of policy development that Gavin Williamson actually made?

Jeez, DSOL and I get on but not usually politically!
IP: Logged
MKpool Posted on 20/04/2020 11:15

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
I find it amazing that Simon Stevens the CEO of the NHS never gets criticised for anything. It is HIS job to procure supplies for the NHS. The Govt is helping out as it is an emergency. Did Stephens not think of stockpiling?
IP: Logged
devifish Posted on 20/04/2020 12:15

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
gov doing a brilliant job in a impossible situation .Most peiople seem to agree apart from those with the biggest mouths sounding off on line .And least not forget the bbc has now become a anti gov political party
IP: Logged
JHNG Posted on 20/04/2020 15:43

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
To be fair Mark, I think she has been EXCELLENT every time I've seen her. Eloquent, articulate, wide ranging knowledge, talks with confidence which must be difficult, stays very patient with some HORRIFIC questions from the journalists. I find it strange when a woman like that is clearly trying SO hard that people think its a good idea to call her an " idiot" and a "bint" I think she's got an extremely difficult job, at a horrendously difficult time, and I repeat, I think she's EXCELLENT.
IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 20/04/2020 16:10

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Tell that to my daughter JHNG, working in a dementia ward where 50% of patients have Covid 19. The lives of countless people have been and are still being put at risk by a response on testing that was woefully slow off the mark, and remains woefully inadequate in terms of both testing and PPE provision. These are our most senior people and between them they have failed to act in time or with the right measures. Her "grown up conversation" comment was as arrogant in its own way as anything else I've heard in this debacle.
IP: Logged
JHNG Posted on 20/04/2020 17:31

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Mark, I agree with a lot more of your most recent post. As of today, we havenít even tested 1% of the Country, and indeed were 20th out of 20 in terms of tests per capita in a league table I saw yesterday. I also think itís HORRENDOUS thatís anyone should have to work on the frontline ( such as your daughter ) without the proper PPE, but with the government now having to make deliveries to 58000 institutions, rather than the 233 6 weeks ago, it must be a logistical nightmare. Ironically Mark, I think Iím in your camp, in so much as I agree re needs for PPE, and a massive increase in tests, and whilst I also agree that JHís comment left a lot to be desired, the only thing Iíd take issue with you is describing her as an idiot and a bint - I donít think her performance/ effort and hard work is deserving of those 2 remarks. Like all other people in UK currently, I take my proverbial hat off to your daughter - she is a heroine in my eyes and thatís the truth.
IP: Logged
scratchingshed Posted on 20/04/2020 17:53
Edited On: 20/04/2020 18:03
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
The Government certainly arenít doing a brilliant job under the circumstances and itís a joke to suggest it.

Having to beg the likes of Turkey/Miramar for PPE is an utter embarrassment.

My son in law caught the virus through work (works at the Vic) because of inadequate or missing bits of PPE my Daughter will probably get it now and maybe my Grandson as well.

Weíve known whatís been coming since the turn of the year in early January and we didnít act on it until March which is simply unacceptable.
IP: Logged
poolcat Posted on 20/04/2020 18:47

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
[^] Shed.

IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 20/04/2020 19:20
Edited On: 20/04/2020 19:23
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Thanks for the reply JHNG. It's worth reading some of the comments from John Ashton about the UK response. He was also outspoken but I believe he got it right. I've had dealings with him over the years and though he's hard work he made suggestions that should have been heeded. We have got so many things wrong with the UK response and accountability for this sits with well paid figureheads at the top who are presiding over some shocking complacency and poor decision making.
IP: Logged
MACSEASIDER Posted on 20/04/2020 19:21

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
I hope they are all doing OK Shed. What a stressful time for you all.
IP: Logged
scratchingshed Posted on 20/04/2020 19:36
Edited On: 20/04/2020 19:49
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Thanks Mac. 👍

Yer son in law tested positive just before Easter daughter tested negative at the same time weird or what?

Fingers crossed heís doing ok though, just hope the Daughter and grandson donít get it now.
IP: Logged
speaktruth Posted on 20/04/2020 19:46

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
"As of today, we havenít even tested 1% of the Country, and indeed were 20th out of 20 in terms of tests per capita in a league table I saw yesterday"

I saw that table too. Where were the other 180 countries? It meant nothing without them.
IP: Logged
TheGrimReaper Posted on 20/04/2020 23:10

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
First world country eh?
Do we believe that, really?
IP: Logged
RUSTY_3_STANDS Posted on 21/04/2020 09:12

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Yet more internet 'experts' with that priceless gift of hindsight, but none of the answers
IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 21/04/2020 09:41

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
The answers on PPE were obvious from the start. People with the authority, responsibility and mandate to get us organised just failed to listen and act. You don't need to be any kind of expert to see that.
IP: Logged
RUSTY_3_STANDS Posted on 21/04/2020 09:46

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
No but you need to have some sort of insider knowledge as to what is actually happening. Not what you perceive is happening.
There's been a lot of that displayed by the internet experts on social media recently.
IP: Logged
Hertsseasider Posted on 21/04/2020 10:18

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Best wishes to your families Shed and Mark and any others affected by all this.

IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 21/04/2020 10:29
Edited On: 21/04/2020 10:33
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Cheers Herts - I'm sure most of us know or are related to someone working in NHS or Care.

Fair comment 3 Stands. There is some nonsense being talked. However I believe history will judge the UK response as very poor though once all the facts and the timeline of failure is clear. Brexit was actually fortuitous in one way because a degree of stockpiling had taken place in preparation. That short term advantage has been squandered though.

I hope we learn the lesson to not rely entirely on global supply chains in future and I hope we make proper use of our own resources now to help turn the tide.
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 21/04/2020 11:12
Edited On: 21/04/2020 11:13
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Interesting discussion, the science element particulary. Apologies for the very long post.

The key question for me is whether scientists are truly informing decision making as much as the politicians would like us to believe.

In March we had the maligned and short lived 'herd immunity' approach which was going to last 12 weeks or so. I dont buy the 'benefit of hindsight' argument here, it was pretty obvious to anyone able to read (based on what was happening overseas) that this would overrun the NHS in pretty quick time - BUT THIS WAS FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE.

So, then the government approach changed (quickly) We enter a lockdown, schools shut, businesses close, the country grinds to a halt. But WE'RE STILL FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE. Most people agree (I think) this has been the right approach but if we're honest wouldn't most of us have done this from the start? Does anyone know what advice was given for the government to perform a complete policy u turn? Its pretty obvious decision making followed public opinion who were already avoiding public transport, taking kids out of school and cancelling sporting events. Basically and in crude terms the public didn't buy the government approach.

So, now we have a discussion on the end of lockdown. And once again we're re-assured government will FOLLOW THE SCIENCE. But what is the scientific advice, where is the criteria on which any decisions will be made? We don't know, because we're not told despite repeated requests to do so. The lack of advice/steer is on the basis we might all start doing something stupid - now based on the fact that the public went into self imposed lockdown whose the one left looking stupid - government or the public?

So, yes. The government is in a difficult position but it hasn't helped itself by failing to provide the public with enough information about its plans.

I've seen alot of blame attached to the media but they can only ask the questions (The politicians aren't answering them). The daily briefings are now largely a waste of time.

So going back to the end of the lockdown, we will be told that the government is following SCIENTIFIC ADVICE but from what has happened so far I doubt it. What is more likely to happen is public opinion will change and the government will react accordingly when they feel least blame can be attached to them. And public opinion will eventually change based on potential damage to the economy.

And throughout the whole process despite what we're told by the government, the scientific advice will almost completely have been ignored and every effort made to hide it from us.



IP: Logged
RUSTY_3_STANDS Posted on 21/04/2020 12:27

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Some fair points Mark GT. Of course the government has made mistakes. But it is an unprecedented situation. It's all these keyboard experts that annoy me.
I particularly agree with your last sentence. And not just for stocks in case of another possible pandemic in the future.
I sincerely hope we stop relying so much on cheap imports of anything from the likes of China. I accept that's going to be difficult though.
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 23/04/2020 23:47

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Spooky...

Link: Follow the science
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 25/04/2020 08:44
Edited On: 25/04/2020 08:53
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Move forward a few days and we learn a little more but not because the government deliberately informing the public.

We discover via a leak that Cummings actively participates in Sage. But denied the opportunity to know who is on this committee, what they discuss and how influential they are to government policy (and even Cummings role).

I'm not sure who to be more dissapointed in. The politicians for denying the public an opportunity to understand decision making or scientists for going along with it.

It's absolutely vital the public trusts the authorities especially when discussions about ending lockdown are taking place. Treat us like adults and we may just act like them, 'we're following scientific advice' doesn't cut it and being used to deny the public the right to hold elected parties to account.
IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 25/04/2020 10:13

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
100% agreed. Considering there are daily briefs the communication with us the public is appalling. Nearly as appalling as having a sociopath like Cummings anywhere near the decision making process.
IP: Logged
poolduck Posted on 25/04/2020 11:38

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
It's easy to make nonsensical negative comments as can be heard everyday when questions are asked at daily briefing.I think the medical officers doing an excellent job in extreme circumstances.Maybe some decisions could have been done better but we are going through unprecedented times .
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 25/04/2020 12:19

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Rubbish.

The public have a right to know what is going on with this committee and who is on it especially after what happened with the herd immunity fiasco.

Transparency will lead to better decision making.
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 04/05/2020 10:06

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Good news.

The science community is pulling together a group of experts which are independent of government interfearance (and employment!). This will shadow Sage, who continue to remain something of a mystery.

This group will be fully transparent and publically share discussion and findings government. First meeting today.

Be interesting to see how this is and hopefully help prevent the public being subjected to a premature relaxation of lockdown.
IP: Logged
MARK_GT Posted on 04/05/2020 20:55

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Good news indeed [^]
IP: Logged
bfcpete Posted on 04/05/2020 23:00

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
One problem of another independent group is that they may not have access to all the relevant data and other information that SAGE has, so may be trying to 'second guess' on the basis of incomplete information.
That is also a bit like the 'experts' the media sometimes roll out, such as ex-CMOs, who retired years ago, and who have not been party to the data or the meetings where the issues were discussed and may have never dealt with a pandemic of this nature and scale.
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 05/05/2020 10:34
Edited On: 05/05/2020 10:36
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Possibly Pete, but the potential benefits of a broader discussion held out in the open can only be seen as progress.

The current Sage group includes 17 members who are government employees (Out of 23). There is widespread condemnation of Cummings playing an active part in this group from in and outside the committee.

It's seems to have had an immediate benefit, Sage has now started the process of releasing the advice it was given (this should have been done from the start).

The independent group is already identifying the wearing of masks as having significant benefit in reducing transmission rates in the far East. The UK public haven't received clear advice.

And as we approach a reduced lockdown the public need confidence in the policy approach. Hiding behind a government paid committee, restricting the publication of advice is something we might associate more with China than the UK.

This is a traumatic time for everyone, it's not a time for a small number of scientists and politicians to put barriers up between them and us.

[^]
IP: Logged
1966_and_all_that Posted on 09/05/2020 16:04

Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
Just popped over from t'other site and read this thread. A good and well informed debate. I shall explore some more.
IP: Logged
Tikataka Posted on 09/05/2020 16:37
Edited On: 09/05/2020 16:37
Deputy chief medical officer Jenny Harries
[^]

The main point of contention in the debate now is the release of Sage papers and scientific advice being heavily redacted by our government. Another attempt to limit information available to the public.[V]

Science were boxed in from the start by lack of face masks, limited resources for tracking and tracing PPE etc which were government decisions from the outset - not scientific ones. No point in asking for something or advising on an action which can't be delivered is there?

Question is whether the public will support politicians or the scientists. It's unlikely to be both with the way this crisis is developing.
IP: Logged
Previous Thread  |  Start New Thread  |  Top Of Board  |  Top Of Thread  |  Next Thread



Home  |Message Board  |  Top of Board  |  Login  |  Register


Copyright © 2008 to 2020 Fansonline.net Ltd

FansOnline.net Ltd
Unit 7
Brentnall Center
Gilkes Street
Middlesbrough
Cleveland
TS1 5AP
Fansonline Home | About Fansonline | Contact Fansonline | Advertise On Fansonline | Privacy Policy | TOS
10.0.166.103